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Liberal townies might not know all there is to know about foxhunting, so we thought we'd ask someone with some more experience on the matter to an insider's view. Is it worse than shanking refugee babies in the face, or actually just a slightly outdated way of dealing with a real countryside problem (vermin populations)? Niki used to ride regularly with the Cumberland Farmers Hunt. This one isn't a satire, by the way.
It is a widely held view that hunting is an activity carried out only by aristocrats and landed gentry. Do you think that public feelings on hunting would be the same if this were not the case?
I think it a misconception that only aristocrats hunt. Regulars I knew included a cleaner, a school dinnerlady, a fireman, farmers, local children and myself (a secretary). The Quorn Hunt in Gloucester, which is the one usually shown on television is the smartest in England. The rest of the hunting community spends the week working hard so that they can afford the upkeep of their horses for hunts on Saturdays and Wednesdays.
To what degree do hunts still take place?
To my knowledge hunting is continuing as usual. One hunt in Scotland was shutdown and two years later it has set up again. Total government botch.
Do you think that if people actually ate the foxes it would make this a more publically acceptable sport? Clarissa Dixon Wright (the second Fat Lady) has a great recipe for fox...
No, the difference is that if you fish or shoot you're at ground level. The problem with the hunting is an issue with scarlet jackets and being on horseback. The elevated height apparently implies a false sense of snobbery.
How effective are hunt saboteurs in interfering with hunts?
From my experience, not effective in the slightest. However, I have encountered them trying to distract hounds and trying to lead them onto main roads and motorways. They take them into danger. They sometimes put up barriers, which risks injury and death to both horse and rider. If these people are animal lovers, they would employ themselves better helping constantly pregnant dairy cows and battery-farmed hens.
How likely do you think it is that the hunting ban could be repealed?
Conservatives say it's the first thing they would do. I can't see it happening under Labour.
Hunting has been argued as the most humane way of culling fox numbers (compared to shooting). Is it the most fun way?
It is the most humane and effective because it only thins out a part of the fox population. Only the fittest foxes can survive a hunt. Shooting is indiscriminate. No, it is not "the most fun way". You're not enjoying the moment of death. It's not sadistic. It's never pleasant watching anything die. Watching hounds work, watching horses work, socialising with other country folk, that is enjoyable.
Comments about this article
Hunting with dogs was banned because it is inherently cruel to chase wild mammals and rip them apart with a pack of dogs for human entertainment. For this reason, the majority of people in the UK supported the introduction of the Hunting Act (and continue to support the current ban) regardless of whether they live in rural or urban areas. Ipsos-Mori polls have shown that more people support the ban than oppose it. The reality is that hunting is a cruelty issue not a class issue.
Posted by anonymous @ 13/05/08 16:14:36
the reference to \'liberalism\' was made by a butthurt conservative crying about the \'lack of balance\' in the original article (which was actually titled how to sabotage a fox hunt) it\'s a reference to that I\'m pretty sure...
Posted by anonymous @ 07/05/08 15:21:55
I\'m not selective with my morals, as i dont agree or buy into battery farming, im just saying that in a world of mass production its a lot harder to avoid, and prevent, and that in mentioning this in the article doesnt justify fox hunting any more.
And yes i see the impracticality of shooting as an alternative, but i hardly think hunting comes down to bieng \'chased for a few mintues by dogs.\'
I\'m not as well informed as most people who would be interested in this article, and neither do i pretend i am, but i still dont see fox hunting as a way of life, simply because a \'better solution\' is hard to find.
Since when has this been argument and not a debate?
Posted by fknief @ 07/05/08 12:55:44
A small semantic quibble, but I\'m not sure the term \"liberal townies\" in the preamble is entirely appropriate.
Political and philosophical liberalism is mainly concerned with the right of humans to exercise free will at all times - it has nothing to do with the rights of animals.
If anything it is illiberal to oppose the right of humans to hunt foxes - witness the quote in the initial article on hunt saboteurs, bemoaning the fact that \"these people (foxhunters) exist outside the law\". That\'s about as contrary to the sentiment of liberalism as you can get.
Posted by anonymous @ 07/05/08 12:05:23
fknief - mass production, slaughter and exploitation of animals is inevitable? Selective morals or what? You can\'t pick and choose, cruelty is wrong or it isn\'t!
Posted by anonymous @ 07/05/08 10:49:59
If they just enjoy the riding and socializing, why not play polo instead of torturing the fox to death?
Posted by anonymous @ 07/05/08 10:28:43
fknief you don\'t have a clue do you? I\'m happily on the fence being both an animal lover and having actually been fox hunting to find out a little more what its about instead of pretending I know.
Shooting is a) indiscriminate - how many people do you think go out to feed their chickens, find a fox, have the time to go get their gun and time to get the mark on and kill it outright, not many - so if the foxes have no worth (sad as it is that they down have intrinsic value anyway- people enjoy hunting and respect the fitter foxes) and populations are left up everything would be shot or maybe even gassed, goodbye country fox.
b) and another point with shooting - foxes are quick, even an able marksman is bound to get some crappy shots...hmmm a few minutes being chased by dogs and a quick death or taking weeks to die of gangrene......you decide which is better
Fox hunting isn\'t nice no, but a \'better solution\' isn\'t as easy to find as you think and its a huge part of country life.
And by the way its thanks to this world of mass production that foxes must be culled too - a farmer cant afford to loose their livestock if you and their family want feeding. And as for battery hens, it makes me sick, at least the fox has freedom. Ironically battery hens are probably safer than other more ethical livestock from the fox so lets not make it harder for our ethical farmers.
Posted by anonymous @ 07/05/08 10:21:52
I\'ve never disagreed on so many levels.
Firstly, people do not take a dislike to fox hunting because of some sort of aristocratic figurehead they have in their minds. Have you ever considered that maybe people dont like cruelty?
I agree with the battery farmed hens, and constantly pregnant cow comment ... but I think that is ignoring a vital point.
Although these are not nice conditions, and they should be avoided, in the world of mass production we live in, its sad but inevitable.
Fox hunting is not. Shooting a fox that you see to be disrupting your routine (of whatever sort) is not indiscriminate, its dealing with the problem as and where you find it.
How on earth can chasing, frightening, THEN killing an animal be the most humane way?
It may keep more of the fox population alive, but only so the fitterst survive for people to hunt down again ...
Posted by fknief @ 07/05/08 10:05:38
rah rah right on!
Posted by anonymous @ 07/05/08 09:45:14
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